No more turbos in WRC....

[ELI]

Just found this out pretty crazy if you ask me.... but The World Rally Championship’s governing body, the FIA World Motor Sport Council has just confirmed that as of 2011 competing vehicles (http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/293762-no-more-turbos-wrc.html#) must use non-turbocharged naturally aspirated engines. Click the link below

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/03/new-wrc-rules-mean-no-more-turbos.html

[Frank]

Why?

[Wheelman13]

I swear, you'd think the FIA was out to put an end to this dastardly "interesting" racing stuff. All the gay rules for F1, and now this. I guess it's time to find a dish TV service that carries whatever channel airs the Aussie V8s, BTCC, and JGTC. Those series are at least still worth watching (even though the NSX is being retired from JGTC service).

[ELI]

Yea no more MR in JGTC that is some bull shit. Autobac need to step not only for the nsx also for their mr2.

[ELI]

Link to the NSX news....
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2009/10/report-acura-nsx-gets-forced-retirement-from-japans-super-gt-series.html

[Wheelman13]

I want to watch some real-damn-racing. Anyone know where I can get archive DVDs of some of the old IMSA GTP and Group C stuff?

[javajoe79]

I doubt it will slow them down much, at least not for too long. Like in F1 the FIA has been making changes aimed at cost cutting but it really just make them spend more to go as fast or faster than before. I can imagine them upping the displacement and ditching the restrictors if they get rid of turbos. I don't see any reason for it to be any less exciting.

[Chandler]

cool , soon awd 300hp na cars

[mintygood]

Now they are just going to build crazy high comp NA engines and its not even going to matter so who cares

[Wheelman13]

There comes a point though where one wishes the governing body would just quit fiddling. Cost cutting, when you have a competitive and reasonably diverse field, is not an excuse. If you want slower rally cars, add weight. If you want to cut costs, ban sequential gear boxes or something.

[CiviclyDumped]

I can understand that they want to open it to more manufactures, but at the cost of losing bigger manufactures? i.e. Subaru. If the auto makers that "couldn't" compete were whining about it they should have just built better faster cars for rally.

I highly doubt you are going to see NA Evo's and such running... they will probly pull out just like Suby.

[satalac]

One part of me is going to miss the turbos the other part is interested to see what the manufacturers will come up with. I still think they should say "fuck it, let's bring back Class B".

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Group B?

[satalac]

Group B?
Hahaha, yeah, I meant Group B. I need some coffee.....

[sigurd]

I agree they will spend money anyway making the na motor 300hp. However the lack of turbo will reduce cost over the season I would think because anti-lag kills turbos with a quickness.

[Wheelman13]

I think in the grand scheme of things, the developement costs of a new powertrain will far outweight the simple parts-cost replacing a turbo once or twice per rally. You know they probably replace half of the engine between rallys anyway, so a turbo would seem incidental.

Oh well, I don't exactly have Citroen's balance sheet in front of me, so it's all speculation anyhow.

[mintygood]

This isn't really anything new. The people who run these types of things change stuff all the time. They change stuff in the tour de france all the time. Right now the weight limit is 15lbs so a lot of teams have to add lead weights in their frames to bring their bikes up to weight. Also, everyone has to wear a helmet now which somewhat reduced performance.

Not really a big deal

[Wheelman13]

IMHO, bike racing isn't quite analogous to car racing. In the end, the person powers the bike, so assuming the bikes are all within some percentage tolerance, "modifications" to the person should go much further than modification to the bike frame.

I am well aware at the level of historical fiddling involved with motorsports.

I was dismayed at the transition from the IMSA "GTP" cars to the open-cockpit World Sports Cars (WSC)...at least I was until I saw/heard a Ferrari 333SP for the first time.

I was entertained by the french changing the rules 5 years in a row and still not be able to get the Pescarolo/peugeot cars in front of the R8/R10 for a while there.

I was horrified as the FIA decided that it would be a good idea to not allow F1 teams to change tires...it seems this was the only way to Stop Schumacher winning an 8th. (I still only give Alonso any real credit for 1 of his 2 championships).

I was even moderately curious with the whole car-of-tomorrow shenanigans with that roundy-round series.

...doesn't mean I can't complain about the newest round of fiddling on teh internetz. :)

[TWINKIE]

im sooooooo excited!

[satalac]

Maybe we'll finally see some Honda Civic Si rally cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!


























































:ph34r:

[Drifter757]

Bah, stupid governing bodies...

bring back group B!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu8uBgEgjEc

[Wheelman13]

Amen. I actually just found a really interesting documentary on that formula not too long ago. I watched the whole thing in between Forza sessions on my second monitor.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5Jto1Zdd4

[ELI]

Hell yea!!!

[4x4le]

Tell the fia to keep up the good work!!!!!!!

Everything will look like this before long

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Sports/images-2/nascar-race-2.jpg

[ELI]

ha ha....

[Jose-Aka-Pedro]

Wanna see some real good racing? Here ya go, The Best Old school DTM races...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-AxiVqihM

[Leftlane]

lol at the roundy-round series comment. that made me laugh

so no more turbos huh? just curious, but how many AWD NA 300HP cars are out in the market right now?

and whats group B? i dont follow racing as much as id like to, so im out of the loop about what group B is. please give info..

[4x4le]

allot of the wrc engine have been a far cry from stock engined though. I mean hell the awd turbo focus was always a good car but I have never seen a production one.

It will be pretty easy for them to use aluminum blocked v6's and they can yield 300awhp easially in race trim

[ELI]

[quote=Leftlane;351941]lol at the roundy-round series comment. that made me laugh quote]
Ah...so you think its fucking funny do ya tough guy hu?!?!?! FINE!!! HA HA hAhahahahaha ha... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!:jeffj:

GOD I NEED SOME STARBUCKS DAMN IT!!!




AND HEY ITS A GODAMN 240 that looks like a damn SKYLINE.....






j.k. Love ya buddy.:razz:

[javajoe79]

Group B was awesome but alot of people got hurt and died too. Those cars had loads of power with not so good handling, control, traction etc.... The modern cars are faster on most stages anyway. Plus they will close a stage nowadays if too many people are on it.

My vote is for a new formula of mid engine, 3 litre, na, and 2wd. That will never happen though. My favorite car ever is the Lancia Stratos. THAT was a rally car!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Lancia-Stratos-HF-Group-4-%27.jpg

[javajoe79]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/Lancia_Stratos_Turbo.jpg/800px-Lancia_Stratos_Turbo.jpg

[DAtIntegra35]

I want to watch some real-damn-racing.

That's what NASCAR is for! Every Sunday starting in February! BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY LET'S GO RACING BOYS!

[mintygood]

IMHO, bike racing isn't quite analogous to car racing. In the end, the person powers the bike, so assuming the bikes are all within some percentage tolerance, "modifications" to the person should go much further than modification to the bike frame.

I am well aware at the level of historical fiddling involved with motorsports.

I was dismayed at the transition from the IMSA "GTP" cars to the open-cockpit World Sports Cars (WSC)...at least I was until I saw/heard a Ferrari 333SP for the first time.

I was entertained by the french changing the rules 5 years in a row and still not be able to get the Pescarolo/peugeot cars in front of the R8/R10 for a while there.

I was horrified as the FIA decided that it would be a good idea to not allow F1 teams to change tires...it seems this was the only way to Stop Schumacher winning an 8th. (I still only give Alonso any real credit for 1 of his 2 championships).

I was even moderately curious with the whole car-of-tomorrow shenanigans with that roundy-round series.

...doesn't mean I can't complain about the newest round of fiddling on teh internetz. :)

yeah but the real variables are really in the bike since the anatomy of the human body has its own natural limits. It was just an anology about governing bodies, not a comparison between cycling and WRC.

[Leftlane]

well then, someone answer my previous question...

what is Group B??

[85rx-7gsl-se]

well then, someone answer my previous question...

what is Group B??

Group B was a rally class in the 80s involving for the most part mid-engine AWD rally cars powered by 500+hp turbo 4 cylinders. Was ended after several horrific accidents in which a large number of spectators were injured/killed.

[thawk]

^
Shit, I thought some were in the 800-900hp range?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

^
Shit, I thought some were in the 800-900hp range?

Well 800-900 would fall into 500+ now wouldnt it :razz:

[Leftlane]

was it driver error or spectator line too close to the roads/courses?

[5series_4_Me]

i want to tally...i mean rally...

[Wheelman13]

well then, someone answer my previous question...

what is Group B??

It's not as if I didn't post a link to an HOUR LONG DOCUMENTARY about Group B earlier in the thread:

Amen. I actually just found a really interesting documentary on that formula ::edit::Group B::edit:: not too long ago. I watched the whole thing in between Forza sessions on my second monitor.

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5Jto1Zdd4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv5Jto1Zdd4)

If you have ADD, I sincerely appologize for posting a link to a video that may take more than 10 seconds to watch. That was insensitive of me.;)

[javajoe79]

Seriously threads get ruined all the time on this board for people shit talking about stupid crap. Fucking drop it ok? Mods should be cleaning threads up not making them worse. If you wanna swing dicks about fucking bicycles vs WRC then make another thread in off topic. Are you people actually interested in cars or do you just like to stir up shit???? FUCK!




^
Shit, I thought some were in the 800-900hp range?
Not for long. Even the Pikes Peak special Audi was only about 600hp. They didn't have the traction to use that kind of power.


was it driver error or spectator line too close to the roads/courses?
both

[v8subie]

FIA is trying to find new car companies to introduce themselves in the WRC considering some companies (i.e. Subaru, Mitsubishi to name a few) left. Is it a good thing? I don't know.

[Slipstream]

I find it funny that the FIA states the reason for going NA is to make it less expensive to build a competitive race car. It is undisputed that it is less expensive to build a forced induction vehicle than a natuarally aspirated vehicle with the same horsepower goals in mind. Personally, I think that the real motivation is some pressure from the dirt people to go "greener" or some bullshit like that.

MY buddy Eric (Drifter757) summed it up last night when he said the Group B racing of the 80's and early 90's was the pinnacle of motorsports. I completely agree.

Really, no one gives 2 fucks about this.....

I give a fuck. not 2 fucks though, b'cause I usually get sleepy after the first one.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Seriously threads get ruined all the time on this board for people shit talking about stupid crap. Fucking drop it ok? Mods should be cleaning threads up not making them worse. If you wanna swing dicks about fucking bicycles vs WRC then make another thread in off topic. Are you people actually interested in cars or do you just like to stir up shit???? FUCK!



Point well taken... BS moved here
http://tennspeed.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16792

[thawk]

Are you people actually interested in cars or do you just like to stir up shit???? FUCK!

CaRZ??? WatZ DaT?

[javajoe79]

CaRZ??? WatZ DaT?
I know you know.

[javajoe79]

MY buddy Eric (Drifter757) summed it up last night when he said the Group B racing of the 80's and early 90's was the pinnacle of motorsports. I completely agree.
What do you think about how Group B ended in 86. Yeah the cars still went on in rallycross etc but we aren't talking about that. They were awesome cars though.

[Leftlane]

Personally, I think that the real motivation is some pressure from the dirt people to go "greener" or some bullshit like that..

but why is it that more car manufactures out there are going forced induction to keep up with the stricter epa requirments?

for example...look at bmw, audi, volvo...

[Wheelman13]

True, the general trend has seen smaller displacement FI motors replace large displacement NA motors for performance applications. This still allows semi-hot cars, while allowing the manufacturers to meet the stricter standards.

What you have to look as is that, with the exception of really complex and expensive technology (i.e. the various cylinders-on-demand systems), you can't "turn down" a big V8, whereas if you are just piddling around off boost/out of VTEC range, etc. Your EVO/STI/M3 is doing a good imitation of a gas-sipping small-displacement eco-box.

Soooo, when the EPA does it's average speed tests and whatnot (they don't typically test cars at WOT), they see mostly off and partial boost readings.

[Slipstream]

but why is it that more car manufactures out there are going forced induction to keep up with the stricter epa requirments?

for example...look at bmw, audi, volvo...


it was a theory. maybe a not-so-well-thought-out one :D

[codytheoutlaw]

I mean hell the awd turbo focus was always a good car but I have never seen a production one.


they are european. its called the focus rs, and they are pretty bad ass.

[dart]

New rally is pussy anyway..i mean i keep up with wrc but back in the 80s audi s2 quattro hit the track between 750-900 hp depending on tune for conditions. new rally cars are around 325hp so building 325 n/a hp shouldnt be a problem for anyone... skoda can use a vr6,peugot or however its spelled im sure has some 4 cam v6 bullshit, scoobys got the 2.5,etc but wrc only allows 4cylinders nowadays so expect some fragile cars.back in the day audi had a 5cylinder and triumph had the 3.5 rover v8 not to mention all the good old rally 510s and corollas escorts now its just bullshit cars.... well i guess no more 150mph through the snow.

[javajoe79]

New rally is pussy anyway..i mean i keep up with wrc but back in the 80s audi s2 quattro hit the track between 750-900 hp depending on tune for conditions. new rally cars are around 325hp so building 325 n/a hp shouldnt be a problem for anyone... skoda can use a vr6,peugot or however its spelled im sure has some 4 cam v6 bullshit, scoobys got the 2.5,etc but wrc only allows 4cylinders nowadays so expect some fragile cars.back in the day audi had a 5cylinder and triumph had the 3.5 rover v8 not to mention all the good old rally 510s and corollas escorts now its just bullshit cars.... well i guess no more 150mph through the snow.
While it seems you have a general grasp of the history of rallying, I will correct you a bit. The Audis never had anywhere near 750 hp, let alone 900. Even the hillclimb car didn't have that much power. 600 was about tops, even in hillclimb trim. They didn't have the tires to use that power anyways. New rally cars have less power than group b did but they are still faster on most stages then the Group b cars were. Exceptions being some of the wide open stages.
I do agree that there could be some more diversity in the field but it is hard to regulate a series when each car is totally different. I would be happy if they came up with 2 or 3 different formulas that would allow for the cars to be different but keep them all competitive with on another.

Either way you look at it, then and now, top level rally drivers are amazing talents.

[beallen25]

P.S. this is going to suck worse than Subaru pulling out of WRC


http://neorazorx.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/mafia.jpg

[4x4le]

yes, my motto is never pull out

[ELI]

Shut up^^^

[LS1KILR]

well i guess we better get ready for the n/a sti's and evo's to come out. i bet they will be quick! :mamoru:

[javajoe79]

All they will have to do is homologate a certain number of cars with said engine. If people still want to buy turbo cars, they will still sell them. But seriously if they go that route, it could just mean different cars all together will qualify.