B20/vtec in EG HATCH

200whp from a stock B20/vtec with a good tune? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Try around 170-180whp.

My built LS/VTEC put down 187whp. I'm running a ITR trans and tuned using Hondata S200 (3hr drive to Birmingham, and $150/hr x 3hrs). I have around $6000 in my build and trans. No block guard. Not sleeved.

My friends fully built B20/VTEC put down 211whp. He's got a built trans with different gear ratio's from MFactory. He's got about $7000 in his build. No block guard. Not sleeved. Tuned using Hondata S300 by a guy in Huntsville.

I hope you have $10,000 to reach your goals. You should think more realistically and be aiming for 200whp.

What you need to reach 200whp: B20 block. RS Machine 84.5mm pistons. You can use the stock rods. ARP rod bolts. ITR oil pump, ITR water pump. ITR head with 00-01 ITR Cams or CTR Cams. ITR or Skunk2 ProSeries IM, 62mm or bigger Throttle body. Hytech Replica Big Tube Header. 2.5-3" full exhaust. B16 or ITR trans. Good breather box setup/catch can.

As far as sleeving a B20 block? Up to you. If you have the cash, go for it. The sleeves are a little thinner and I've heard of some cracking. Same with the block guard. It's not necessary, but if you want to do it, then make sure to have it done right and have it align honed.

This build is gonna cost you at least $5000. So good luck.

You want my suggestion, buy a GSR swap and put a Jackson racing supercharger, hytech replica big tube header, fidanza flywheel, Hondata S200 w/Boost + good tune and you will be at 220-230whp.

lol listen to ecuadam. you're a noob to NA performance.

if you think you can just put some shelf parts in and mak 250-300whp, you're dead wrong.
everything, EVERYthing has to work together for better flow and compression. do your research on ls-vtec builds and you'll see that to put anything over 230 down NA, you're talking some extensive machine work.

and this is supposed to be your daily grinder???? hahah.

to obtain 250whp, no that you will, but you'll have to have one good headworker. and you'll need to remove EVERY excess parasitic loss.

full Drag NA motors are usually in the range of 260-290whp. not many are over 300. toda leases a motor they build to make 300 CRANK hp, it is leased at 10k/yr...
just showing you how unrealistic your goals are.

you should buy omnimans 200whp stock block build. its worth every penny. and then you'll really see how unrealistic your goals are...

"oh, oh, talking out the side of your neck..."

autoxDC2 said:

200whp from a stock B20/vtec with a good tune? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Try around 170-180whp.

My built LS/VTEC put down 187whp. I'm running a ITR trans and tuned using Hondata S200 (3hr drive to Birmingham, and $150/hr x 3hrs). I have around $6000 in my build and trans. No block guard. Not sleeved.

My friends fully built B20/VTEC put down 211whp. He's got a built trans with different gear ratio's from MFactory. He's got about $7000 in his build. No block guard. Not sleeved. Tuned using Hondata S300 by a guy in Huntsville.

I hope you have $10,000 to reach your goals. You should think more realistically and be aiming for 200whp.

What you need to reach 200whp: B20 block. RS Machine 84.5mm pistons. You can use the stock rods. ARP rod bolts. ITR oil pump, ITR water pump. ITR head with 00-01 ITR Cams or CTR Cams. ITR or Skunk2 ProSeries IM, 62mm or bigger Throttle body. Hytech Replica Big Tube Header. 2.5-3" full exhaust. B16 or ITR trans. Good breather box setup/catch can.

As far as sleeving a B20 block? Up to you. If you have the cash, go for it. The sleeves are a little thinner and I've heard of some cracking. Same with the block guard. It's not necessary, but if you want to do it, then make sure to have it done right and have it align honed.

This build is gonna cost you at least $5000. So good luck.

You want my suggestion, buy a GSR swap and put a Jackson racing supercharger, hytech replica big tube header, fidanza flywheel, Hondata S200 w/Boost + good tune and you will be at 220-230whp.

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i have to disagree with you on your "what you need to reach 200whp" list. not that the parts aren't capable of reaching that potential goal. but parts do not equal power man. parts will never solely equal power. they all have to work together. not to add that 84.5mm pistons wont work in a nonsleeved block, a transmission doesn't effect power either...

and as for sleeves being thinner from installation, that is a false statement. they should be the same sleeves as the b18a/b and quite possibly the b18c's... i dont sleeve motors, but the sleeves are ground out, then the new sleeves are press fitted into the block. original sleeve thickness has nothing to do with the aftermarket sleeve thickness.

spoolie said:

bwhahahahaha this thread is full of win...you will not break 160whp guaranteed.

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Awww, Come on, you wont even give him 170?

Serioustly though. I squeezed 201HP out of a street tune an lsvtec with ITB's. I believe that this number was from carma's dyno when he went at a later date just to see what it was putting down.

The 215 figure is if his compression was 12.5:1 running on E85 with Some serious $$$$$$ in cams, port work, and an engine capable of turning 8900+. It is doable, just takes $$$$$$$.

To answer the queston about sleeves,

There is two aspects to sleeving, Strength-bore size.

Some people sleeve to add strength to the cylinders, others do it achieve crazy bore numbers. One reason is these all motor guys love the "square" motors. "Square" means the stroke matches the bore. ex: 84X84. To my understanding no honda motor can achieve this with stock sleeves because they do allow enough room for the larger pistons.

So to answer your quesion about the sleeves, Unless your baller status (no employment suggest other wise) then just buy some pistons that are 11.5:1, .5mm bigger than stock and take those to RPM (of other machinst of your choice) and tell them to bore and match with the recomended piston to wall clearence (usually from .0025-.0035 depending on how hard you plan on running your motor.)

nskforlife said:

i have to disagree with you on your "what you need to reach 200whp" list. not that the parts aren't capable of reaching that potential goal. but parts do not equal power man. parts will never solely equal power. they all have to work together. not to add that 84.5mm pistons wont work in a nonsleeved block, a transmission doesn't effect power either...

and as for sleeves being thinner from installation, that is a false statement. they should be the same sleeves as the b18a/b and quite possibly the b18c's... i dont sleeve motors, but the sleeves are ground out, then the new sleeves are press fitted into the block. original sleeve thickness has nothing to do with the aftermarket sleeve thickness.

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Please don't type if you don't know what you're talking about. I built my LS/VTEC myself, and it runs perfect. It make 187whp with a DC 4-1 header. I have since switched to a Hytech Replica Header and added a BPi Velocity stack. It will make 200whp when I re-tune.

What motor have you built and what kind of power have they put down? And prove it.

First of all, all the parts I listed = the power I said it would make. I stated those parts because they all work together really good to achieve good power (200whp) and good for daily driver. Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

B20 blocks are stock 84mm.

When building a motor, you should bore and hone the block. And RS Machine makes a good high compression piston similar to the ITR but in 84.5mm size and their prices are on the lower end to keep build cost down. So in order to use ANY over sized piston, he will need to bore and hone. But he can use any piston he wants. I just recommended the RS Machine piston because it is probably more affordable for him.

B20 sleeves are thinner then B18a/b/c and more prone to cracking. Again, do your research, and you will know that. Some hold up great, and some don't. I guess just depends on luck of the draw and how the motor is built.

84.5mm pistons will work fine in a non sleeved block. It is his choice if he wants to sleeve it or not.

The gearing in a transmission effects power a whole lot. Please stop giving false information.

This is a DIRECT QUOTE from MFactory:

"By changing your final gear ratios, you can experience a dramatic increase in acceleration throughout the rev-range, giving you on average, a 15% increase in torque at any given speed over the OEM Final Drive. Infact, on a USDM Integra Type-R with stock 4.4 Final Drive, when driving along at 57mph, you will have an extra 38whp on tap with our 4.928 Final Drive!"


To the OP, I think you should state your budget. That will help identify the realistic goals you should expect. And then the experienced people can guide you in the right direction.

ECUAdam said:

Should have talked to me about eCtune, LOL,

As far as the sleeves go I have ran 22+ psi on stock b20 sleeves with a pt67 turbo. I think strength is not an issue.

Also if you take the time and go to a honda parts place and look at the expanded view of the oil pump between a stock ls and a "HYPE"r it is the same exact thing except for a shim. What I am saying is you can but a washer in a stock ls oil pump and BAM you now now a type r oil pump.

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I did talk to you and I did consider having you tune it. But after I talked to numerous people about you, the consensus was to go to Jim @ Motorvations. I heard mixed opinions about you. You were good for low investment builds, but everyone said that with the amount of money in my build, they would take it to Jim. Nothing against you, I think you're a nice guy from talking to you and doing a great job. All the kids around love you.

Plus it was cheaper for me to have him dyno tune my car then to have you dyno tune my car. His rate: $150/hr vs Your rate: $200/hr ($150/hr for the dyno & $50/hr for your) plus I would have had to buy an ECU and have you chip it (I think you said $100 to chip it) plus buy an ECU for $100. In total, it cost me $300 and 2 tanks of gas to drive down and get it tuned. Plus, Jim is a great guy to know. Very knowledgeable and very smart. He spent 3hrs setting up and tuning my car, but charged me for 2hrs. Very nice.

And as for the oil pump trick, I don't know if I want to take apart an oil pump to add a shim. But all oil pumps from 96-01 are the same (ITR/LS/GSR).